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351m / 400m

wickedstangs

Chula Vista, CA
Staff member
Administrator
All, at the last meeting I told you that Papatom donated a 351w to the club well it turns out to be a 400 CID motor from the Ford 335 engine family built by the Ford Motor Company between 1970 and 1982.

These are the casting numbers I have found on the motor.
CASTING NUMBERS
BLOCK D4AE-B2A 5H15
HEADS D5AE-A2A 6L15
CONNECTING RODS D1AE-6210-AA
MAIN CAPS D1A-E-AA
CRANK 5MAB

400M
The big-block FE engine family was getting rather tired and outdated, and the 385 family could not meet the efficiency requirements of the time. At the same time, the small-block Windsor engines were too small and high-revving for Ford's fullsize car and truck applications. So the company went to work on a new small-block to meet the desired levels of economy while still providing the kind of big-block torque that was needed to move 2+ ton vehicles.

The Ford 400 engine was based on the 351 Cleveland but was produced with a half inch taller deck height to allow for a crankshaft with a longer stroke. The 400 also featured larger main-bearing journals and had "square" proportions, with a 4.0 in (102 mm) bore and stroke; it therefore displaced 402 cu in (6.6 L), making it the largest small-block V8 made at that time. It was introduced in model year 1971 with a full half-inch (12.7 mm) longer stroke than the 351 Cleveland, making it the longest-stroke Ford pushrod V8 engine. A long-stroke engine has good low-end torque. This was a good compromise given Ford's requirement for an engine to power heavier mid-size and full-size cars and light trucks. The M-block, as it later became known, was the last pushrod V8 block designed by Ford. The M-block also shares some elements with the Windsor engine family: bore spacing, cylinder head bolt-patterns and crankshaft journal dimensions.[1]

The 400 was seen as a smaller and lighter replacement for the big Ford 385 engines, the 429 and 460, in Ford's big cars. Weighing just 80% of a similar big block, it was originally available in Ford's Custom, Galaxie and LTD lines, and in Mercury's Monterey, Marquis, and Brougham. Later, it would power the Ford Thunderbird, the Lincoln Continental, Mark V, mid-size Fords and Mercurys, and Ford light-duty trucks.

The vast majority of 400 blocks use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 385 family big-block to make it compatible with the higher torque-capacity C6 transmission used on the large cars and trucks. There were a small number of 400 block castings that use a "small block" pattern on the rear for mounting an FMX transmission. These castings are rare. The 400 was modified in 1975 to use unleaded gasoline.

On the other hand, an M-block engine in factory trim has vast, untapped power potential. It is smaller and lighter than a big block (which is why it was developed in the first place), and when properly built, the M-block's power output is comparable to most big blocks.*

Please Help me do research on this motor...

Links I have found
danlee_callout.jpg


1. 400M
2. Over 500HP and 565lb-ft from Ford's 400M
3. 400M
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
my buddy had a 400M in his 78 F150. i can see how you could mix that up with a 351W.... they can make alot of power... but i would go a different route...

after the money spent you might as well go with a used 4v cobra motor.. 03 04?
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
there isn't a hole lot of parts out there for these... We couldn't even find forged pistons... they come stock with some kind of ****ty tin coated piston with like a 7.0:1 compression ratio

stock 152 HP and 150 Ft lbs...
 

Gibs

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Moderator
We talked earlier but I will ask the questions again sorta like an interview so others know the vision of the President.....

Q: What is this gonna cost to rebuild and get running(Competitively)?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: What Transmission(Toploader or C-6) are we gonna use as the C-4 I donated wont bolt up to this block?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: Will it fit in the Fox?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: With the larger engine will we need to upgrade the suspension or bracing in the Fox?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: With the amount of Torque this engine can put out, will we need to stiffen the car anymore?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: How far does this set us back for getting it to the track?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: What benefit do we have using this engine over the 4.6 mod motor?

A: Please put answer here....

Q: Are you paying for this stuff?

A: Inquiring minds want to know......LOL



Thanks Emilio for your hard work on this...




Gib
 

orange395w

OG MEMBER
Staff member
I say enough with this odd ball stuff. Seriously, lets get $600 in the donation pot and get a working party to the junkyard and get a 351w. It's not that hard. This car could have been running already. We need to start a poll since this is a "club" race car. Poll should list the pros and cons of our options and let the club decide. Poll should only allow donators to put in an opinion.

1. 281
2. 400m
3. 302
4. 351w

281 you already have, but wiring is the problem. Not sure what else was needed to get it on the road with this engine.

400m you already have, but parts will be a problem. I personally think this one was a nice gesture, but will be a waste of time and the donated hood will have to go away for sure if that engine even fits. I see too many custom mods on this one.

302 we don't have, but could pick up cheap. To me this is the best option and would require the least amount of modification and work. You could really just go to the local junkyard pick one up and wire up a 100shot and have some fun. Parts are very, very easy to come by.


351w we don't have, but can pick up cheap. This one would require a little more work than the 302, but will be stronger and most likely faster.

Lets not forget that this car will represent all of us and putting out a pile will not look good for future sponsership. This is just my .02 cents on this.
 

Gibs

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Moderator
Orange, I got a 302 block just sitting here that I would donate....and I gave a C-4 that you can run til it breaks........



Gib
 

skidmarks

Well-Known Member
i have a 400M in my 78 Bronco Custom, i love it but planning on putting a supercharged 460 sometime this year. i like the idea. i wonder what it would do in a lighter vehicle!
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
The C4 will work... but the 400M is not worth it to install it in the FOX.... there is no advantage to do it...

GO GET THE 351W!!!!
 

orange395w

OG MEMBER
Staff member
The deck height will cause all kinds of issues with the headers, shock towers, hood etc. Not worth the headache.
 

Gibs

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Moderator
According to what I have read, only a Toploader or a C6 will bolt up to the 400
 

wickedstangs

Chula Vista, CA
Staff member
Administrator
Lots of good inputs keep them coming..

As far as parts are concern there is a moment working on reviving this motor that everyone thought was junk.. If you go to any Junk yard you can find about 100 of these blocks untouched. Now the movement is working on getting lots of parts made for this motor seeing that they are torque monsters performing at the Big Block Level with minor mods and are still a small block.

351M_400_BLK.jpg


Major Companies have taken interest in it with the help of Tim Meyer from TMeyer Inc., FordMuscle took the time to consolidate and present to you numerous aftermarket parts that are available for anyone interested in building a performance 351M/400. Ford enthusiasts can be content knowing more 351M/400's will be saved because of each publication's coverage of the motor. Let's get started 351M/400 hopefuls.

I talked to Tim and asked for is opinion on what we are doing and he told me that there are performance parts out there and they have many mustang doing it.

Just clean up and painted our 400M :)
400%20Ford%20001.jpg
 

Gibs

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Moderator
^^^^^^ LOL

NO CHANCE IN HELL THAT IS THE SAME ONE I SAW YESTERDAY.......



But then again you werent at Fosters today and you had a beer before I left your house yesterday.....LOL



Gib
 

Sinful

Well-Known Member
another idea..

What type of heads does that 400ci engine have? what are the factory flow numbers? if the heads flow good, mill the **** out of them to around 58cc and attempt to achive a 10 to 1 compression ratios, get a decent custom cam for the MACHED combo, and it would be sweet on a 302 healthy shortblock !!?
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
the heads off the 400M have huge 2.09 intake valves and there is a way to put those heads on a 302... i read that in the Ford racing cataolg... but seriously lets get a good small block 302 or 351 and be done with all the quess work! The 400M is to much of a headache and you would need about 5k just to get it to make big power... i mean **** it starts off with only 152hp and 150 trq... Go small block!!!!1
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
the C4 will work behind a 400m... you just change the bellhousing like on a manual trans!
 

Gibs

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Moderator
Right....but it wont just bolt up with out modifying it.....AKA, having to buy more stuff.....



Gib
 

orange395w

OG MEMBER
Staff member
the heads off the 400M have huge 2.09 intake valves and there is a way to put those heads on a 302... i read that in the Ford racing cataolg... but seriously lets get a good small block 302 or 351 and be done with all the quess work! The 400M is to much of a headache and you would need about 5k just to get it to make big power... i mean **** it starts off with only 152hp and 150 trq... Go small block!!!!1


Thank You. It's not really that hard of a F*cking decision. Get rid of all of this bullsh*t and get a 302 or 351w and get the F*cking ball rolling!!!!!
 

Foxman

Well-Known Member
so they already have a MOD motor??? thought I saw that in this thread somewere... if so sell that **** dirt cheap and go buy a 351W!
 
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